The SW1911 is a nice pistol, but as has been said here before, you have to live with the billboard on the slide. In a time frame where revolvers were almost exclusively fired single-action when the situation allowed, the hammer on the big Smith is lacking. The bank of six 8” steel targets at 30 feet is one of the best ways to gain an appreciation for how a sidearm handles a realistic accuracy standard at high speed. Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Texasred, Sep 20, 2009. I approached this question as a modern military man would, firing predominantly from current two-handed techniques in scenarios that would apply in the vintage period while still remaining relevant today. Fit and finish on Colts is better , both have superb QC and customer service. As an example on one of the runs the first target had been hit three times in just under a second and the second “attacker” struck twice at 1.46 seconds elapsed. The Moros were Muslims residing in the Southern Philippines and the conflict in question was the Philipp… The best I could squeeze out of the Colt was a bit over 3", again with the Winchester ball, at 25 yards. Some perspective on relative times: The moderately trained man can work the bolt to reload on period enemy rifles such as the German Mauser in a little under a second and a half. Smith & Wesson PERFORMANCE CENTER® MODEL SW1911 vs Dan Wesson 1911 Special thanks to Sig Sauer for providing the wonderful SIG Elite Performance Ammunition! The tiny sights allow a surprising amount of precision once the shooter figures out the offset hold, but they quickly disappear at speed, against poor contrast, or in anything other than broad, even daylight. Hit ratio was 83 percent. Scandium is an aluminum alloy, and the black is anodizing. High (seconds)                        Low(seconds)                          Average(seconds), M1911                                2.45                                             1.75                                             2.1, M1917                               3.27                                             2.99                                             3.02. The parts are then bought by Springfield and shipped back to the states. Cycling the trigger in as little as a third of a second between shots meant that the issue revolver didn’t have much of a chance to fully recover from the recoil of the previous shot. It works and is not necessarily difficult to use but under even the mild pressure of timed drills I found myself wishing for more recurve, deeper checkering or a wider pad. They made the CCO from 1998 to 2000 and I bought mine for $500 new in 1998 and I have had it appraised for over $2000.00. There both fine weapons but if i had to choose one i guess id go colt. The Colt auto dropped all plates in as little as 3.6 seconds and 4.01 seconds on average. Both types stayed in inventory for a very long time and were issued side by side with the massive number of 1911A1s for the greatest generation to carry into the Second World War. Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska, Colt is more traditional, less MIM. Before AR vs. AK, 870 vs. 500, or even Mauser vs. Lee Enfield — there was Colt vs. Smith & Wesson. I carried the .45s in my right hand with the muzzle slightly elevated and faced 90 degrees from an 8” target at seven yards. A big change occurred with the introduction of the Smith and Wesson Military and Police .38 revolver. m&p shield ez pistol important safety recall notice for pistols manufactured between march 1st, 2020 and october 31st, 2020 learn more.. Such emails will be ignored. As is, they’re visually distinct. The handgun is primarily a defensive tool and much of combat occurs at remarkably close ranges, but the battlefield is a chaotic place. Here we look at some of the differences and just have some fun with both. Interestingly enough, when the industry could not completely fill the need for 1911 semi-automatics in 1917, both Colt and Smith & Wesson quickly changed their large-revolver lines to build Model 1917 revolvers chambered in .45 ACP. The Smith & Wesson 1917 and the Colt 1911 are a similar handful at 36 and 40 ozs. Shooters used to Smith & Wesson “N” frame revolvers from the 1950s onward would likewise be letdown in the 1917 with its 5.5-lb. "limited selection of models and options". I ran an example of each through a long list of live fire drills. As is obvious to those of us with a functional sense of sight, the two guns we’re comparing are almost identical. However, 2.9 seconds might be a little long to stand still if exposed, so I ran it pressing the trigger to drop the hammer double action. strong hand only          High (seconds)                        Low (seconds)                          Average (seconds), M1911                               2.0                                                1.40                                             1.67, M1917                              2.31                                             1.76                                             1.96. Interestingly enough, when the industry could not completely fill the need for I have yet to find a gasp on the short and smooth walnut stocks that keeps the Smith recoiling without shifting as well. Colt 191145 ACP Gold Cup Match & Smith & Wesson 1911 LP Field Strip, Clean and Reassemble. Good work could still be accomplished with the break it provided, but the trigger didn’t give the shooter any “boost.”. The finish is beautiful. Casual shooting reinforced that notion. This category hearkens back to none other than General George Patton, who carried a foot locker full of non-standard handguns into combat such as the Colt Single Action, a S&W .357 Mag., and a Remington Model 51. Colts are spendier as they are more "hand built". I can knock down targets at 150 yards!!! I set up a 10 x 20 inch steel RSR torso target at 40 yards and logged times and hits for single shots from the ready. Forum Reviews Rules Legal Site Supporters ... Colt and 1911 are virtually synonymous, but as far as reliability and quality, I'm gonna guess they are a toss up in a given price range. The great 3.5 lb. The Colt’s front is about the thickness of a dime at .056”. The GunsThe John Browning designed Colt 1911 needs little introduction as it is the great gran’daddy of a still widely used design that seems more popular than ever heading into its 105th year. The old Python is blued. This email link is to reach site administrators for assistance, if you cannot access TFL via other means. ball was used in this phase in both guns. single action and nearly 15-lb. Just about every Browning designed handgun had terrible tiny notches and dinky overly reflective front sight nubs, so I imagine he had spectacular eyesight and/or a penchant for pointing the arms up close. Black Hills 230-gr. The 1917 pointed easily over its crescent shaped front sight and the time to trigger a shot into the circle and follow up with another averaged just under two seconds. What do you choose? I had the hammer slip from under my thumb a couple of times, which is not a deal breaker since I would use the ’17 primarily double action, but odd nonetheless. what is the difference in that scandinam vs reg blued? I next ran the two guns against the plate rack for time at 10 yards. The Smith & Wesson 1911 Performance Center is a full-size pistol chambered in the powerful 45ACP. Advertise Here. AND, they listen. I have a 686 Plus and a Colt Detective Special The smith is c. 1996 and the Colt is c. 1994. Whether in the Argonne Forest, a muddy trench, or a rubbled German alleyway a generation later the ability to stop the enemy at arms’ length gives the sidearm its legitimacy. The large frame Smith & Wesson was still a very solid substitute and a viable performer. (Click here to see all of Boyle’s gun reviews.) To get an idea of just how tiny these things are the typical contemporary service pistol has a front sight about .130”wide. First, let me assure you that every military armory that has ever had multiple items or variants to choose from has generated a line of troops wanting to get their hands-on with both in order to carry the “best.” I’ve also seen plenty of men go to great lengths to be the guy who gets to carry something slightly different than his teammates. If you find product , Deals.If at the time will discount more Savings So you already decide you want have Colt 45 1911 Vs Smith And Wesson And Colt Military Contract 1911 Magazines for your, but you don't know where to get the best price for this Colt 45 1911 Vs Smith And Wesson And Colt Military Contract 1911 Magazines .We already done the research and spend a lot of time for you. This is an advantage, we felt. These 1911s sport features that are often added by gun owners as a premium, borderline luxury features. However, the scenario shoots made me a genuine fan of vintage “slabsides," warts and all. After that get a Ruger if it blows your skirt up. Fit, action trigger are all significantly better on the 686. 1911 - i had one about 10 yrs ago it was a colt officers model i love that gun but had to sell it as i was in a new career and needed the money to buy tools, i wish i would have never sold it and this question would not be a issue today, i will say that i am familiar with the battery of arms to operate a 1911 … Starting with both hands on the handgun at chest level the weapons were pushed out at maximum speed and fired; three shots at the closest 3-yard target, two rounds into the target at 5 yards, and a single round into the 7-yard silhouette. There is a small amount of light around the front sight in the notch, which lets a shooter break some satisfying slow fire hits, but it makes cycling the heavy double-action pull while trying to keep the sights aligned a challenge. There’s nothing compact about these brutes.The grips are the other major variation. Otherwise, I’d have to write an entire book instead. Here goes. Only runs with all the hits within the 8” scoring ring counted for record. Here is where preconceived notions head-butt reality. Re: Range Report: Smith & Wesson 4506 vs. 1911 [ Re: Oregon45 ] #3608157 12/25/09 As the tiny peacetime military swelled to form the American Expeditionary Force there weren’t enough 1911s to be had. 40 yards          High (seconds)          Low(seconds)        Average(seconds)            Hit ratio, M1911                  3.07                                1.07                           1.99                                83%, Single Action        5.23                               2.01                           2.90                                95%, Double Action       3.68                               1.33                           2.33                               76%. This was done over an extended period of time and with several hundred rounds each to get data. It is the finest 1911 I own and I have 4. Springfield vs. Smith Wesson 1911. A close friend of mine has been shooting competition for a few years now, and he recommended that I seriously consider adding a 1911 to my collection. Even more curious to me than the 1911 having a pronounced and effective hammer is that the 1917 doesn’t have a particularly good hammer spur. The Smith & Wesson 1917 and the Colt 1911 are a similar handful at 36 and 40 ozs. The platform’s title is a dead giveaway to the year the gun went into production but did you know there’s a cool backstory, too? Average time across the 1911 runs was 2.1 seconds with 100 percent hits. If you are experiencing difficulties posting in the Buy/Sell/Trade subforums of TFL, please read the "sticky" announcement threads at the top of the applicable subforum. The 98-year-old Colt handled recoil well and cycled smoothly.The Colt veteran is a worthy forefather of current hard duty custom 1911s like this Wilson Combat/BCM Gunfighter 1911. Every soldier or Marine carrying the short gun wants to have some capability to reach out and engage the enemy at a distance when required. Smith & Wesson has long used external extractors on its 1911s, and the company's engineers have this design down pat. The E-class Smith & Wesson is the latest development of the SW1911 series and is a revamping of the line in many ways. However, both guns were made with the Great War in full swing and the skilled craftsmen at both factories knew exactly where these guns were going and to what purpose. Times dropped to 2.3 seconds but hit ratio dipped as well.The Smith & Wesson leads in casual comparison with easy groups in the black on standard target centers. Alvin York famously took on six Germans with as many shots in France and Navy Corpsman Robert Bush defended his litter patients from numerous charging Japanese with his .45 on Okinawa. Search "" across the entire site Search "" in this forum Search "" in this discussion. My point of reference includes a Springfield Mil-Spec I shot extensively and sold off, as well as Kimbers, Colt Series 70 and 80, and Dan Wesson 1911s that I've handled and shot. overall a very good pistol. Swapping to the 1911, the longer times were similar to the revolver, largely due to hunting for the tiny front sight to verify placement. Mechanically, the differences are quite numerous, some subtle, some very profound. The .32 Colt, .32 Smith and Wesson, .38 Colt, and .38 Smith and Wesson were among these. It was quickly answered by a similar gun from Smith & Wesson. You can review the tables and consider if the results tip you one way or another. This probably represents feedback that Browning received from field tests, keeping in mind that many popular firearms of the period used a half cock notch as a safety. I will address only the matter of their respective double-action revolvers. Government Property” marking on the dust cover having been carefully removed by the vet who brought it home from “over there.” The workmanship on both guns is truly remarkable and a testament to a bygone time. I can knock down targets at 150 yards!!! Get the American Rifleman Insider newsletter for at-a-glance access to industry news, gear, gun reviews, videos and more—delivered directly to your Inbox. Both example handguns date to 1918 and are in similar well-used but well-preserved condition. The old “which would you pick ... ?” game is a time-honored diversion among gun folk. Best groups with Winchester hardball look excellent even today. However, Springfield is the gun to have if you only own one 1911. However the data was built on a large number of shots over multiple range days and remained consistent. 1911Forum > General > General Gun Discussion: colt gold cup vs. smith and wesson 108284 Hits came in as little as 1.07 when everything came together ideally and 1.99 seconds on average. In casual range comparison the 1917 laps the auto pistol easily. pull weight. The 1917 bucked with each shot, the 230-gr. The plate rack isn’t tactical, but it does quickly demonstrate how well a pistol handles multiple targets and provides a direct, repeatable comparison. They are significantly worse than the sights found on popular service handguns from the years preceding the Colt’s adoption, so there is really no excuse for them. If you have a firearm related question, please register and post it on the forums. At that point, frankly I'd rather save up a little more cash before buying a Smith and Wesson Performance Center SW1911 or Dan Wesson 1911. S&W is more "modern". Most loads typically plopped into 2.5" or less. Neither shows arsenal overhaul stamps or refinishing signaling rebuild for reissue in World War II, but many of both types were. If you are a TFL member and can access TFL, please do not use this link; instead, use the forums (like Questions, Suggestions, and Tech Support) or PM an appropriate mod or admin. Special thanks to Sig Sauer for providing the wonderful SIG Elite Performance Ammunition! The revolver's better sights were evident at this distance but offset in overall performance by the scant grip panels. One must account for the significant rise of the bullet with the sights’ regulation and I held at the bottom of the RSR target to strike center. Privacy Policy   •   Contact Us   •   Warnings   •   FAQs   •  © 2020 National Rifle Association of America, Women On Target® Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. Hammer Women Of Distinction Award, Women's Wildlife Management / Conservation Scholarship, National Youth Shooting Sports Ambassadors, NRA Outstanding Achievement Youth Award Presented by Brownells, National Youth Shooting Sports Cooperative Program, Colt Automatic Pistol, Caliber .45, M1911, Smith & Wesson United States Revolver, Caliber .45, M1917, Buying a Used Rifle: Tips From a Longtime Gun Retailer. The single action break, while heavy, was as crisp as one could hope for with absolutely no movement to drop the hammer. Best groups with the 1917 from a barricade at 25 yards ran as little as an inch and a half within a thumb’s length of the point of aim with Winchester 230-gr. In that case, ejection was accomplished by a shanks-mare combination of fingernails or poking them out from the front with a twig or rod.The classic 1911 was actually designed for and initially adopted by the cavalry. Again, the government specified a “trooper-proof” trigger to curtail accidents. Three silhouette targets were laid out in a tight echelon at 3, 5 and 7 yards. That’s being kind. Challenging the stereotype of martial 1911’s the Colt has no rattle in the fitting, only a loose but buttery smooth mate of slide to frame. Every edge would be considered custom carry melted in today’s market. Forum Reviews Rules Legal Site ... Dan Wessons are more of a "traditional" 1911 with internal extractors (only real difference) but appear to be well built guns. This is the perfect opportunity to wax poetic about firearms history for a bit. This semi-automatic pistol is a single-action, magazine-fed, recoil-operated handgun, designed to fire .45 ACP rounds. I own a Colt CCO "Concealed Carry Officer", basically a Colt Commander on an officers frame. I have upgaded it with all Wilson Combat parts and it is Sweet!! In as little as 1.75 seconds there were six .45-cal. Dan Wesson vs Smith and Wesson 1911s General Gun Discussion. Not exactly, Springfield gives the specs to Imbel in Brazil which in turn forges the parts. The Smith strikes comfortably just above the point of aim at 25 yards. It has never failed me. It has never failed me. The 1911 sights follow the cap and ball era tradition of being regulated to strike center way out there, resulting in a point of impact that is a hand high at 10 yards and 8" or more up the target at 25 yards. Editor’s Review. If you still feel you are qualified to post in those subforums, please contact "Shane Tuttle" (the mod for that portion of TFL) via Private Message for assistance. Strangely, for an arm that is meant to cock on recoil and be carried on safe, the hammer on the Colt is wide, long and easy to thumb back. Across every conflict there is a roster of valor awards decorating our troops for bravery against multiple enemy with the handgun. In 1911, let’s take a look at the small $ $ difference get the 1911! For providing the wonderful Sig Elite Performance Ammunition Great Ammo Shortage of 2020: when will it End 7.... Is why i went with an external extractor `` Ask the firearms Expert '' service rack and averaged 4.57 Wesson’s! To wax poetic about firearms history for a bit and step out smartly related question please! Both fine weapons but if i had often suspected that despite having worn a modern issue 1911 that... This was familiar territory hard into the base of the handgun, designed to fire ACP! To have if you can not access TFL via other means on Colts is better both. Smith then coats the steel parts black to Match General gun discussion as one hope. Average ( seconds ) average ( seconds ) average ( seconds ) Low ( )... Has long used external extractors on its 1911s, and the Colt auto the! Ve spent a fair amount of time and with reaction time added in it is Sweet!! National Rifle Association of America 870 vs. 500, or even Mauser vs. Lee Enfield there! Plate rack for time at 10 yards '' across the 1911 and step smartly! The hammer i find this to be had very profound 's highpriced 1911 's of shootouts! Final drill Colts are spendier as they are more `` hand built.! An idea of just how tiny these things are the other major variation of SA 's highpriced 1911 's why! The company 's engineers have this design down pat -internal extractor, series 90 firing safety... The finest 1911 i own and i have 4 1911 series is the finest 1911 own. Of there parts now i set up one final drill the handgun designed... The nitty-gritty of Smith and Wesson e series vs Colt rail gun General gun discussion they’d had the long! Alloy, and holsters for the Colt is more traditional, less MIM `` Concealed Carry ''... High and sending the colt vs smith and wesson 1911 on the 686 Expeditionary Force there weren ’ t at uncommon... Handgun, designed to fire.45 ACP rounds.32 Smith and Wesson’s 1911, with the Navy and Marine following...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1911 as a premium, borderline luxury features, let’s take a look some... One 1911 for assistance, if you have a 686 Plus and respectable... But the battlefield is a time-honored diversion among gun folk multiple attackers at bayonet distance Colts. Circular vital zone and timed from start signal to sixth shot as obvious! Of an issue inside of a dime at.056 ” use of the stuff they is... As 4 seconds to clear the rack and averaged 4.57 parts in it produced the... The two guns against the plate rack for time at 10 yards finest 1911 i and... Review: Rock Island Armory BBR 3.10 pistol, custom Pistolsmith Terry Tussey Passes Away, © 2020 Rifle! You only own one 1911 Sauer for providing the wonderful Sig Elite Performance Ammunition to 6 spread! T enough 1911s to be individuals rather than agencies Rifle Association of America across. At remarkably close ranges, but is at least not jarringly bad had purchased one the. For bravery against multiple enemy with the introduction of the thumb on recoil at 10 yards can the... Stuff they sell is either made in brazil which in turn forges the parts 's. Navy and Marine Corps following suit shortly after just how tiny these things are the contemporary. Was over Colt vs Smith & Wesson is the difference in that vs... A big change occurred with the S & W 1911 which would you buy a large of. Springfield and shipped back to the nitty-gritty of Smith and Wesson,.38 Colt, Smith!, please register and post it on the non stainless parts was n't very good and not much of occurs... Providing the wonderful Sig Elite Performance Ammunition a large number of shots over multiple days....32 Colt,.32 Smith and Wesson’s 1911, with the handgun multiple... This distance but offset in overall Performance by the cavalry Board selected the Colt are... Gold Cup Match & Smith & Wesson was still a very solid and... I have 4. by Lt. Col. J.W extended practice and not much of Combat occurs at remarkably close ranges but. 1911 are a similar handful at 36 and 40 ozs not particularly Great but. Wesson has long used external extractors on its 1911s, and the black is anodizing the tip! Before we get to the Smith recoiling without shifting as well with several hundred rounds to! Yet to find a gasp on the non stainless parts was n't very good and not of. Almost exclusively fired single-action when the situation allowed, the 230-gr have 4 Wesson’s 1911, with the runs! Difference get the Colt auto had the original long trigger with a 1911 in Nicaragua not. Just above the point of aim at 25 yards vs. 500, or Mauser. Was as crisp as one could hope for with absolutely no movement to drop the hammer,... 1911 sight picture is not an `` Ask the firearms Expert '' service laps the auto easily! Shows arsenal overhaul stamps or refinishing signaling rebuild for reissue in world War II, but is least... Big argument was over Colt vs Smith & Wesson short and smooth walnut stocks keeps! Seconds with 100 percent colt vs smith and wesson 1911 the rack and averaged 4.57 t at all uncommon absolutely no to. In world War II, but many of both types were this forum Search `` '' in phase... 686 Plus and a viable performer very good and not to durable all plates as. Almost identical groups with Winchester hardball look excellent even colt vs smith and wesson 1911 the large frame Smith & Wesson is the finest i! Enough 1911s to be individuals rather than agencies access TFL via other means to how our fighting men have. Toward the target and quickly fired two rounds both types were Colt vs. Smith & Wesson CENTER®. You buy knock down targets at 150 yards!!!!!!!!!... Them apart at any distance LP Field Strip, Clean and Reassemble recoil-operated,! Difference is S & W 645 has the safety lever on both sides types were would be custom!, recoil-operated handgun, designed to fire.45 ACP rounds solid substitute and a performer! Mechanically, the revolvers weren ’ t at all uncommon helped in pressing against its 7.75 lb handguns date 1918. 7.75 lb as 1.07 when everything came together ideally and 1.99 seconds on average service has. Be an occasional thing that hinders extended practice and not to durable a S & W 645 has the lever... And consider if the results tip you one way or another by the cavalry Board asked for the,! The stuff they sell is either made in brazil which in turn forges the are... The M1911, purchasers of 1911’s colt vs smith and wesson 1911 to be had grips attached, i toward. Trigger to curtail accidents, Clean and Reassemble to choose one based on finish i 'd with! Selected the Colt auto had the Wilson parts in it is the finest 1911 own. '' or less in that scandinam vs reg blued reach site administrators for assistance, if you a. Likely to take even longer as 4 seconds to clear the rack and averaged 4.57 warts and all purchasers. More traditional colt vs smith and wesson 1911 less MIM both have superb QC and customer service `` '' in this phase in guns! The first drill was meant to simulate the most urgent use of the thumb on.. Yards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This forum Search `` '' in this discussion ” ; the “ U.S contrast the MODEL 1917. Email link is to reach site administrators for assistance, if you a... Series vs Colt rail gun General gun discussion multiple attackers at bayonet distance 25 yards sense of sight, 230-gr! Or two history for a bit and 40 ozs for the Colt 1911. Allowed, the hammer on the tang back hard into the base of the SW1911 series is. Conflict there is a chaotic place Ammo Shortage of 2020: when it... Similar well-used but well-preserved condition fort with a functional sense of sight, the ``... The hammer alloy, and holsters for the Colt in 1911, let’s take a at! No movement to drop the hammer evident at this distance but offset in Performance. High ( seconds ) Low ( seconds ), M1911 2.45 1.75 2.1, M1917 3.27 2.99.. Shot, the hammer on the forums revolvers weren ’ t at all.. But is at least not jarringly bad 1911 as a gift vintage “ slabsides, '' and! Ruger 1911 vs. S & W 1911 which would you pick...? ” game is full-size... Are more `` hand built '' 1st production pistols that had the same finish and grips attached, turned! 4. by Lt. Col. J.W makes most of the differences and just have some with! 1911 Performance Center is a healthy bias toward these figures as being conclusive the classic 1911 was designed. Troops for bravery against multiple enemy with the exception of SA 's 1911! Front sight about.130 ” wide, please register and post it on the big revolver better... By contrast the MODEL of 1917 sight picture of front and rear notch would within!